Proposed Trades

[Mnementh]

I'd like to suggest that, in the course of the season, when trades are proposed that any of us might have issues with we come here to air those concerns so they can be addressed by those participating in the trade.  This is in an effort to avoid the drama from a few years back when a perfectly acceptable trade was voted down because people didn't have the common courtesy to simply ask a few questions and based their vote on assumptions and misconceptions.

So with that being said, we have a trade being proposed by Briman and DD where DD is to send Sproles to Bri for Randy Moss.

I do have some concerns over this trade, but I see it as making both teams better, which is ultimately the purpose of any trade regardless of whether or not I think it is "fair".  Briman desperately needs a quality RB and will still have talent left at WR after letting go of Moss.  DD, on the other hand, isn't as strong at WR and could use the help (not to mention the Brady/Moss hookup will be powerful). I don't see how this trade helps one manager more than the other, at least not in a HUGE way...so I'm more than likely to not vote against it.

Thoughts? Concerns?

I really think that if you're not up to discussing your reasons for voting down a trade in a public forum, then you are a coward and your vote should be nullified.  So all of you that may have issues with this trade, grow a pair and step up.

[chew]

Im ok with the trade... but I do see your point Mnem.

[-Spectre-]

I'll reject it just to piss Mnem off.

K, Thx!

[-Spectre-]

Jokes aside I won't vote against it. I do think it's not an equal value trade though.

[Mnementh]

lol...nice!

Ok, so here it is, Spec.  You always just come in here and spew some inane opinion without bothering to explain.  You have a lot of good football insight, so fricken' SHARE it with us, man!  Tell us WHY you don't think it is a fair trade, ffs.  It does no good to just say it isn't without explaining why you feel that way.  Get your pudgy PR fingers working and break it down....sheesh.

[-Spectre-]

Here's my football insight:

1. You are ok with the trade.
2. You are a wetback.
3. Seattle sucks.

Based on the aforementioned reasons this is clearly a bad trade.




Jokes aside ... I'll just state two reason from a very long list 

Moss was picked 13 overall Sproles was picked 80. So early in the season you have to take this into consideration considering Bri is trading away his 2nd pick vs DD's 7th pick that is a huge gap and a big risk for Bri.

Moss is the #1 WR on that team and he will get the majority of the looks on that passing offense. Sproles is the #2 RB and will only be a #1 IF LT cannot go on. Don't get me wrong I am very high on Sproles and I think he is a good FF pick but he is not a Stud like Moss is. In other words Bri is trading a clear top 3 WR for an arguably top 15 RB (if LT stays hurt). Seeing how LT's injury is not severe I think this is a huge risk for Bri and a huge gain for DD. DD is giving away almost nothing for a lot and Bri is giving a non-risk player for a very risky player.


I would have thought this trade would have caused ruckus if you look back at all the fuss that was made on that Cadillac for Alexander trade. To me this looks just like that. Like I said before I won't vote against it therefore the explanation as to why I believe this trade is not of equal trade value seems kinda pointless. I hope you are happy Mnem 'cause you won't be too happy next week when Fitzgerald gets hit with THE CURSE!

[K2theWest]

Yo DD.  I...I'm really happy for you.  Imma let you finish.  BUT SPECTRE HAD ONE OF THE BEST TRADES OF ALL TIME.

[Zeradul]

Sproles isn't even owned in 20% of all yahoo leagues.  That's all you really need to know.  Sproles has had two good weeks with LT's tweaked ankle, and so the only way this trade could even remotely be considered fair is if LT was already out for the season.  He's not, and his injury is minor.  That said, this trade is a consensus top 3 WR, (and top 15 overall pick) for a player who is unowned in 20% of all Yahoo leagues.

I'm sorry guys, but briman finally has a good team this year, and circumstances have allowed DD to trick him into this trade, (Moss/Brady struggling to get back on the same page, and Sproles actually seeing playing time) but this is a no-brainer.

If this goes through, it will go through as the most lopsided trade ever in this league, and when Briman realizes his mistake he's gonna be really pissed.  I haven't decided how I'm going to vote yet, because Briman owns one of the most potent teams, and so it benefits me to see the strongest team weakened so much.

But from a trade value perspective, this is truly absurd.  If LT goes out for the season, then it MIGHT be balanced, assuming Sproles can handle a starting role, and even that is very much unproven.  If you needed more evidence, Sproles isn't even ranked in Yahoo's top 50.... http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/f1/140041/cantcutlist  This is a guy ranked 14 or lower by everywhere I can find, for a player ranked 50+ (80th to 110th by most accounts) and isn't even owned in 20% of leagues.

-----------

Oh, and Mnem, not sure why you posted this thread.  Thats kind of odd.  But I recognize the interest in discussing trades openly, that's a wonderful thing, but there's no need to call people cowards who don't want to publicly disagree with you.    Lets try to keep things friendly.

Fair trades would look something like this:
Lynch + Sproles for Moss (two low ranked RB's for a top 3 WR)
Westbrook for Moss would actually be about even, although with Westbrook's pending injury, it's a risk for Bri.
Roddy White + Sproles for Moss would be pretty damn even as well.

[-Spectre-]

Yo DD.  I...I'm really happy for you.  Imma let you finish.  BUT SPECTRE HAD ONE OF THE BEST TRADES OF ALL TIME.

Priceless!!!

[-Spectre-]

Oh, and Mnem, not sure why you posted this thread.  Thats kind of odd.  But I recognize the interest in discussing trades openly, that's a wonderful thing, but there's no need to call people cowards who don't want to publicly disagree with you.    Lets try to keep things friendly.

/hides

[-Spectre-]

Sproles isn't even owned in 20% of all yahoo leagues.  That's all you really need to know.  Sproles has had two good weeks with LT's tweaked ankle, and so the only way this trade could even remotely be considered fair is if LT was already out for the season.  He's not, and his injury is minor.  That said, this trade is a consensus top 3 WR, (and top 15 overall pick) for a player who is unowned in 20% of all Yahoo leagues.

I'm sorry guys, but briman finally has a good team this year, and circumstances have allowed DD to trick him into this trade, (Moss/Brady struggling to get back on the same page, and Sproles actually seeing playing time) but this is a no-brainer.

If this goes through, it will go through as the most lopsided trade ever in this league, and when Briman realizes his mistake he's gonna be really pissed.  I haven't decided how I'm going to vote yet, because Briman owns one of the most potent teams, and so it benefits me to see the strongest team weakened so much.

But from a trade value perspective, this is truly absurd.  If LT goes out for the season, then it MIGHT be balanced, assuming Sproles can handle a starting role, and even that is very much unproven.  If you needed more evidence, Sproles isn't even ranked in Yahoo's top 50.... http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/f1/140041/cantcutlist  This is a guy ranked 14 or lower by everywhere I can find, for a player ranked 50+ (80th to 110th by most accounts) and isn't even owned in 20% of leagues.

There are plenty more reasons.....

[Zeradul]

So I have some revised thoughts here, after thinking about this more.  It's not five times worse trade than Caddy for Alexander, but it is slightly worse, and actually quite similar.

Both trades involve a proven stud, who is struggling slightly at the moment.  Both trades involve a young up and comer, with outstanding early performance. (in Caddy's case un-matched in NFL history first three games)  And there is even a significant down side in the case of Sproles, who is the clear backup to one of the greatest RB's in history.  Now if this is going to be LT's last year, or worst year, that remains to be seen, but at least caddy was the clear #1, with the best three games to start his career in NFL history.  Chew was actually NOT totally insane to trade his #2 overall pick for him.  it was a questionable move, yes, and Caddy's injury problems did return and that cost chew big.

In this case, we have a big unknown and that is LT.  And Moss is so proven.  He's the only player in NFL history to play the most prominent role on two separate offenses that each smashed the NFL's scoring records.  Late 90's with the Vikes, and '07 with the Pats.  It's no fluke that Moss was there to make both of those happen.  He's the most physically gifted receiver in the history of the NFL, and when you are trading that kind of value in fantasy, I think you should be getting something that is equally a sure bet.  That isn't Sproles, and while this trade isn't as insane as I initially thought it was, it is still a HUGE risk for Bri, a risk that he has to avoid even to _Break Even_ with this trade.

That said, i still can't reconcile Sproles being unwanted in 20% of leagues, in exchange for a top 3 WR.

I'm curious to hear other thoughts

[-Spectre-]

I don't think Moss is struggling. He had one bad game (vs the Jets). He has not scored TD's but with how this league is setup (10 receiving yds per point) that makes no difference (he had 141 yards on the first game). Last time he played with Brady he had 9 100 yard games (thats 10 points without TD's).

We'll hear Briman complaning a couple of weeks after this trade passes.   

[Mnementh]

Jesus, Zera, sometimes you are SO daft.  I am NOT calling anyone in the league a coward outright...it was a CHALLENGE to people to speak up and stand their ground.  Everyone here knows where they stand with me, and most of them know I do not think of them as cowards...except maybe for Spec, but he's a fucking Puerto Rican, so he can't really help it.

[-Spectre-]

Jesus, Zera, sometimes you are SO daft.  I am NOT calling anyone in the league a coward outright...it was a CHALLENGE to people to speak up and stand their ground.  Everyone here knows where they stand with me, and most of them know I do not think of them as cowards...except maybe for Spec, but he's a fucking Puerto Rican, so he can't really help it.

I hate you too Mnem 

[Evict3d]

Jesus, Zera, sometimes you are SO daft.  I am NOT calling anyone in the league a coward outright...it was a CHALLENGE to people to speak up and stand their ground.  Everyone here knows where they stand with me, and most of them know I do not think of them as cowards...except maybe for Spec, but he's a fucking Puerto Rican, so he can't really help it.

I don't think it is an unfair trade per say, if bri accepts he has a lot to risk...

As a San Diegan, the chargers have had a pretty shitty running game for the past few years in part due to trading the FB away, and the other part to a weakening offensive line.  Regardless, the chargers running game, looking forward, the chargers rushing game is lackluster at best.  With a lot of fans complaining about LT not getting enough playing time (i disagree), how many reps sproles gets / his future is uncertain.

Another aspect, assuming things go forwards as they have, Sproles is not being used much as a Red zone back.  That greatly limits his ability to score points in FFB.



If DD had LT, and was trading LT for moss, i would still say it was a very risky trade for Bri.

[Zeradul]

I'd like to suggest that, in the course of the season, when trades are proposed that any of us might have issues with we come here to air those concerns so they can be addressed by those participating in the trade. 

Ok, I did my part.  Anyone willing to address my concerns?  

Sproles remains unowned in 15% of the 900,000+ Yahoo leagues.  How could this be, if his value was equal to Moss'

Moss is a consensus top 3 WR (and 14th most valuable overall), Sproles isn't ranked in anyone's top 50, anywhere.

Explain to me how this isn't the most absurd by low, sell high scam on one of our most unsuspecting and impulsive managers.

[Zeradul]

If DD had LT, and was trading LT for moss, i would still say it was a very risky trade for Bri.

Yes.  Exactly. 

Any RB in a time share is just not going to be as valuable as Moss, except for maybe Chris Johnson.  That's why Moss was drafted where he was, immediately after the RB's not sharing caries were gone.

So yea, I'm voting against this because it's just too much for too little, and DD, you are STACKED at WR with 3 guys owned in 97%+ of leagues (Moss would make your 4th stud receiver)  That said, you also have Lee Evans owned in 88% of leagues, AND Gage owned in 55%.  You've got 5 WR studs and you adding another?

Throw Bri a bone here and give him one of your three studs.  Roddy White, Roy Williams, or Santonio Holmes.  They all have roughly the same value this season.  Other than Owens, Bri has noone at WR.

Again, Bri FINALLY has a good team this year, I can't stand by and allow highway robbery like this.

[QB3RT]

i voted against it.  If briman had 4 #1 WR's i'd let it slide.

Sorry DD.  But Moss had 3 TD's in 1 game in the preseason. 

[rue]

I was going to stay mum on this topic as I see no need to defend myself in front of this most ridiculous of kangaroo courts, front lined by Gaius Cassius Zeradul, but since the results of the trade vote are now in but not yet known, I will speak. 

What needs to be revealed first is I did not propose this trade to briman, briman proposed this trade to me.  The onus of fairness is the responsibility of the initiator and no other.  I could not sanely inquire of briman if he felt this trade was fair because he quite clearly stated that when he initiated the trade. 

If it matters, which I assure you it does not, I do think the trade is fair.  Never in my life have I seen worse arguments attempting to project doubt towards the equivalence of a transaction.  I will address each in turn with no regard to which I find more inept as it is difficult and ungrammatical to discern who failed more completely.

-As to Moss being drafted earlier than Sproles.  We cannot equate values here in week 3 against values players had prior to the start of the season.  Last year Brady was the #1 QB pick and top 5 overall.  After week one his value plummeted sufficiently fast enough that hopefully one may appreciate the ability of a player's value to be drastically different in varying weeks.  Make no objection that this is a special case because Brady was injured. How fast did Michael Turner's value change over the course of last season?  Please don't bring this argument again.  I'm embarrassed for all of us.

-As to Sproles being owned less in other leagues.  Sproles's ownership is increasing.  Therefore we must equate his value alongside his upward potential. 

- I read a lot of speculation about Sproles's value being linked to LT as LT's substitute.  I heard no counter arguments relating how the same argument applies to Moss' potential being linked to his complement Brady.  That this was not brought up would surprise me if not for the rampant display of paltry thinking that goes on and on post after post above.

-There was also no reference to Moss' and Sproles's values expressed over time and a 14 week season. Both players have inherent risks associated with their personal performance and the performance of their team. Since this cannot be accurately projected, no one may speak knowingly to either player's value. 

What needs to be revealed next is this was not the first trade offered involving Randy Moss.  I did initiate a trade prior.  However, it was rejected.  Briman then made a counter offer.  Recognizing that Briman had reevaluated Moss' value TO HIM and TO ME, I accepted the trade. 

Senator Zeradul McCarthy:

You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?  How dare you weave this conspiratorial tale of what you knew to be certain was my objective.  How dare you insinuate that I tricked anyone and conducted a scam.  Your words have run away with you here and become so far fetched and yet so unsurprising.  I'm reminded here, as I always am when you get passionate about what you know to be certain, why I can't take you seriously on any matter be it politics or FF or the rotation of the Earth.  You didn't even ask me.  You convicted me of your all knowing mind.  The only surprise here was you didn't reference a roommate who perhaps had done something similar in the past, as justification.  Stop pretending that you care.  The charade was over a long time ago.  I hope you're happy in any case. 

[Zeradul]

I was going to stay mum on this topic

Ok, well when Mnem asked you to respond to his own and other concerns, that was your chance to enlighten us.  Mentioning that Briman proposed it might have gone a long way to this trade passing.

I do think the trade is fair.

The purpose of this thread was to let you explain to us why you thought it was fair.  You don't have to like this "kangaroo court" but vetoes are democratically elected things.  I apologize for the inconvenience of stooping to explain yourself to us mere plebs.

We cannot equate values here in week 3 against values players had prior to the start of the season.  Last year Brady was the #1 QB pick and top 5 overall.  After week one his value plummeted sufficiently fast enough that hopefully one may appreciate the ability of a player's value to be drastically different in varying weeks.

You are actually comparing Sproles getting touches with Brady being placed on IR.  Really?.  Yes, if LT was out for the season, Sproles value would rise precipitously, but he's not, and therefore, the most relevant indicators of value are still draft position, and ownership %.  If you've got a better indicator of value, lets hear it, especially given how inaccurate you think my evaluation was.

Sproles's ownership is increasing.  Therefore we must equate his value alongside his upward potential.

Sproles ownership is increasing because LT might not play this weekend, in a home game vs Miami.

I heard no counter arguments relating how the same argument applies to Moss' potential being linked to his complement Brady.

  Well, that's why Mnem asked you to speak on the issue.  However, if you believed that Tom Brady wasn't the stud we all think he is, you wouldn't be trading for Moss, would you?  Noone made that argument because noone believes it.

-There was also no reference to Moss' and Sproles's values expressed over time and a 14 week season. Both players have inherent risks associated with their personal performance and the performance of their team. Since this cannot be accurately projected, no one may speak knowingly to either player's value.

Did you really just make the "noone can see the future" argument?  Really?  Of course that's true, so all we can go on it what we know.  We know that Brady broke the all time single season scoring record 2 years ago with the same offense, and offensive line he had then.  We also know that Sproles is the clear backup to the best RB in the modern era, on a running offense that is struggling.

You didn't even ask me.  You convicted me of your all knowing mind.

  Wow, an out and out lie from you DD.  WTF???  That's pretty low.

I contacted you multiple times, and here are the logs.  First the night of the trade:

briman NICE TRY THIS WEEK ZERA
briman WAY TO BE 1-1 TIED WITH ME
briman MAUHAHAHAHA
* briman has quit (Quit: )
Zera DD, you know he's going to be pissed at your in week 4 when LT gets healthy and sproles only gets on the field to return kicks
Zera (and brady finally gets back into it and shreds a D for 48
steve`laptop .
* serv0 has quit (Quit: )
DD you guys don't like my trade, eh?
* GK-JoeSnuffy (MrSkeezix1@nc-71-50-143-22.dyn.embarqhsd.net) has joined #jbpow
* ChanServ gives channel operator status to GK-JoeSnuffy
MjrMayhem Nite All
MjrMayhem Nite JPBoW
* MjrMayhem has quit (Quit: What the hell is that! O_O)
* GK-Hitler has quit (Ping timeout)

--------- I had gone to bed, but the next day I said this in an IRC PM:

Zera- Honestly DD, a consensus top 3 WR - many would say a top 10 overall draft pick - for a guy not owned in 20% of Yahoo leagues.
Zera- i recognize brady is struggling, and I also recognize that Sproles has had two flukes of games where he has gotten on the field extra time in addition to returning kicks, however, 20% unowned for a top 10 guy
Zera- i see how bri fell for this but the guy finally has a good team and you're going to steal away his top player
Zera- i haven't decided how i'll vote yet, as it is in my interest to weaken the top team ...
Zera- but if it goes through, it will go down as the biggest robbery in our league by far
Zera-
Zera- gl
Zera- heh

---- In addition, I asked numerous direct questions is this thread.  How else should I address you, DD, other than the two places we communicate, and in this thread specifically about this trade?  Not sure why you're claiming I didn't ask you enough, I find this totally bizarre.  The only explanation I can see is that it is merely a desperate attempt to weave more bad blood between the two of us.  No idea what your motive is here, but I wish it would cease.  If you can help me to identify whatever it is that is causing this, I ask you please personally contact me (publicly or privately) and explain, and I have repeated this exact sentiment numerous times over the years, and you have never responded.

If you actually think that I voted against this (a trade you admit wasn't fair), because I'm carrying some sort of grudge against you, then you sir, are extremely paranoid.  Should it not be evidenced that the trade you proposed bri accept (Roddy White and Bell for Moss) be almost identical to the trades I suggested?  Is that not conclusive evidence enough that I'm on the same page as you with this issue?

Can we try to smooth things over here?  I was only 1 of 4 who vetoed this.  It's part of the game, I explained my reasons, and it was well within my right to do so.  You can continue to cast me as the scapegoat if you wish, but in so doing, you are disregarding and not respecting the opinions of the 3+ other players in the league who also vetoed your trade.

I'm trying to make amends here, and I don't know why you're fabricating nonsense to continue to justify your aggression towards me.  What is your deal?  Honestly.....?  Let's hear it.

[-Spectre-]

Where is Kanye West when we need him??!!??!!??!!

[rue]

I was going to stay mum on this topic

Ok, well when Mnem asked you to respond to his own and other concerns, that was your chance to enlighten us.  Mentioning that Briman proposed it might have gone a long way to this trade passing.

I can assure you this ceased being about whether a FF trade would pass a long time ago.  Mnem and I spoke about this privately so that was not of my concern.  What this morphed into, and the reason why I didn't respond was a whole lot of you speaking knowingly about my intentions without one bit of dialogue between the two of us. I was genuinely intrigued by how far it would go and thus my curiosity overcame what little urge I had to bolster my case for this being a fair trade.  Post ONE by you on this matter read and I quote:

I'm sorry guys, but briman finally has a good team this year, and circumstances have allowed DD to trick him into this trade, (Moss/Brady struggling to get back on the same page, and Sproles actually seeing playing time) but this is a no-brainer.

Right there this ceased to be about a trade.  You defamed me with no prior basis.  I would have thought that YEARS of common competition be it in JB or PoW or FF would lend me a smidget of benefit of the doubt here but instead I "tricked" someone into a bad trade.  That's not one bit of right and you could be sure you were going to hear from me about it.  If there's one thing I can't stand on this Earth it's rampant speculation pre ceding benefit of the doubt.  Misunderstandings are inevitable and prevalent.  It's those who think and inquire first who will be first to the truth.  Not slanderers like yourself.

The next 5, 6 or 19 quotes are about Sproles's value as compared to Moss'.  It's utterly impossible to define their values of course, we can only ponder.  However, I know that I had an idea of what Moss was worth to me.  Briman disagreed.  He countered.  I now knew what Moss was worth to him. All of the sufficient details of transaction were complete.  I accepted Briman's offer in good faith we had reached agreement.  I tricked no one.  No dialogue occurred between Bri and I in either trade here or anywhere else.  He acted of his own volition.

You didn't even ask me.  You convicted me of your all knowing mind.

  Wow, an out and out lie from you DD.  WTF???  That's pretty low.

I contacted you multiple times, and here are the logs.  First the night of the trade:

briman NICE TRY THIS WEEK ZERA
briman WAY TO BE 1-1 TIED WITH ME
briman MAUHAHAHAHA
* briman has quit (Quit: )
Zera DD, you know he's going to be pissed at your in week 4 when LT gets healthy and sproles only gets on the field to return kicks
Zera (and brady finally gets back into it and shreds a D for 48
steve`laptop .
* serv0 has quit (Quit: )
DD you guys don't like my trade, eh?
* GK-JoeSnuffy (MrSkeezix1@nc-71-50-143-22.dyn.embarqhsd.net) has joined #jbpow
* ChanServ gives channel operator status to GK-JoeSnuffy
MjrMayhem Nite All
MjrMayhem Nite JPBoW
* MjrMayhem has quit (Quit: What the hell is that! O_O)
* GK-Hitler has quit (Ping timeout)

--------- I had gone to bed, but the next day I said this in an IRC PM:

Zera- Honestly DD, a consensus top 3 WR - many would say a top 10 overall draft pick - for a guy not owned in 20% of Yahoo leagues.
Zera- i recognize brady is struggling, and I also recognize that Sproles has had two flukes of games where he has gotten on the field extra time in addition to returning kicks, however, 20% unowned for a top 10 guy
Zera- i see how bri fell for this but the guy finally has a good team and you're going to steal away his top player
Zera- i haven't decided how i'll vote yet, as it is in my interest to weaken the top team ...
Zera- but if it goes through, it will go down as the biggest robbery in our league by far
Zera-
Zera- gl
Zera- heh

I made no lie.  You still didn't inquire.  I was afk at the time and read your message later.  As you typically do, you spoke instead of conversed.  In line 3 I'm already the antagonist seeking to "steal" Briman's player.  I reacted how I often react to your baseless accusations and diatribes: by ignoring you.  For much the same reasons I don't believe certain people should be given an audience when they behave foolishly, so is my stance towards you when you knowingly point fingers.

---- In addition, I asked numerous direct questions is this thread.  How else should I address you, DD, other than the two places we communicate, and in this thread specifically about this trade?  Not sure why you're claiming I didn't ask you enough, I find this totally bizarre.  The only explanation I can see is that it is merely a desperate attempt to weave more bad blood between the two of us.  No idea what your motive is here, but I wish it would cease.  If you can help me to identify whatever it is that is causing this, I ask you please personally contact me (publicly or privately) and explain, and I have repeated this exact sentiment numerous times over the years, and you have never responded.

If you actually think that I voted against this (a trade you admit wasn't fair), because I'm carrying some sort of grudge against you, then you sir, are extremely paranoid.  Should it not be evidenced that the trade you proposed bri accept (Roddy White and Bell for Moss) be almost identical to the trades I suggested?  Is that not conclusive evidence enough that I'm on the same page as you with this issue?

Can we try to smooth things over here?  I was only 1 of 4 who vetoed this.  It's part of the game, I explained my reasons, and it was well within my right to do so.  You can continue to cast me as the scapegoat if you wish, but in so doing, you are disregarding and not respecting the opinions of the 3+ other players in the league who also vetoed your trade.

I'm trying to make amends here, and I don't know why you're fabricating nonsense to continue to justify your aggression towards me.  What is your deal?  Honestly.....?  Let's hear it.

The rest of this post needs only two things addressed:

-Claiming this is personal is actually moving in the wrong direction.  My complaint lies with the lack of this being personal i.e. you never took the time to ask me before you made your conclusions.  Both times, the first post on this thread, and your only message to me on IRC you had already convicted me.  I chose not to be so idignant as to defend myself against your accusations.  I know I didn't deceive anyone by accepting this trade. 

-Saying my motive here is to prolong our feud is not only incorrect, it lends credence to my case that you're more than willing to blow way past speculation and into being absolutely sure that you above all else can tell others what's going on in the minds of anyone who's actions you have witnessed.  Zera, you can't.  So stop.

[Zeradul]

Your singular piece of "evidence" is that I said that you "tricked" bri into the trade.  May I remind you that in IRC you said "you guys don't like my trade, eh?"  See that?  "MY" trade?  There was no reason for me to think that bri had suggested the trade, and thus it is still reduced to a consensus top 3 WR for a guy not in anyone's top 50.

You can pick one half of one sentence from 15 paragraphs and call it a "conclusion", but conclusions are things I rarely arrive at, and when I do, they are all only temporary conclusions.  100% of my views are subject to change with new evidence.  What you call conclusions, I call "observations".  Conclusions are reserved only for things with MASSIVE evidence in support of them, and even then, are still subject to change.

I would have presented the same evidence no matter who was involved in the trade.  A player ranked in the top 15 is just never worth a player not in the top 50.  To suggest otherwise is to disregard all general knowledge on the topic.

Saying my motive here is to prolong our feud is not only incorrect

Then what is your motive?  Why have you attempted to portray me as singularly being out to get you? I'd like to hear more on this, because whatever you are using to justify your aggression towards me I would very much like to discuss in the hopes alleviating it.

Let me be clear:  I want a truce.  I want to get along.  I want to go back to the days of pleasantly discussing politics and philosophy and morality.  I don't understand the root of the angst here, but I want to make amends.  Not just for this momentary dispute, but I want at end to the 5+ years of unpleasantness.  I'm all ears on any ideas you have on how this can be accomplished.

[-Spectre-]

WTF is wrong with both of you? Stop this bullshit of a fight, it will go nowhere (well it might entertain some peps).


As far as what I've posted
1. Moss is more valuable than Sproles, look at any website with people who have a job at debating this FF shit and you'll see Moss ranked higher than Sproles.

2. I did not vote against the trade. Based on all the bs that has happened b4 I won't vote against a trade unless I have any reason to believe that teams are in conjunction of stacking a team.

3. If Briman wants to be an idiot a risk taker, let him do the trade. He's entitled to do so.

This reminds me so much of the whole waiver fiasco a couple years ago. The discussion will lead up to nothing and just get people pissed uninterested in playing.

Now play nice and don't force Mnem and myself to join forces and insult you all ... we all know what happened last time we did that ... the greater cosmic balance of the entire multiverse was compromised!

[rue]

Zera, if you want bygones to be bygones then so be it.  I will extend the 5th, 6th or 20th olive branch to you no strings attached.  Again I will hope that you don't smash the peace by saying I'm colluding with Mnem, or by changing the subject in one of my threads or accusing me of tricking Briman.  I ignored your replies here accusing me of tricking and scamming.  I ignored your IRC message where you suggested I'm taking advantage of Bri and stealing his player.  I should have continued to ignore it but you went post after post after post preaching The Gospel of Zeradul where DD is deceitful and you weren't going to let him get away with it. That's my weakness and pride.  I'll ignore your accusations from now on.

[Zeradul]

Zera, if you want bygones to be bygones then so be it.

Done.

I'm glad that BS is behind us.

[-Spectre-]

Ok, to maintain peace.... Mnem you are a smelly wetback!

[chew]

Wow...  can we all just get along?  Its fucking FF for god sakes...I was pissed last week but im over it...just gonna try and win this year...lol